Bob  0:00  

It's time for conversations with Kimm on this Monday, and it's our pleasure to talk with Kimm Burger Attorney at Law here, in Hillsdale and Kimm, a touchy subject to talk about this month. Neglect abuse. First of all, what is the legal definition, I guess, if you will, for neglect, abuse?

Kimm  0:18  

There are a bunch of different aspects that comes into play, you could have, obviously, the parents that are on drugs, which would obviously indicate there's some issues with the children. You can have cleanliness of the home, you can have medical, where they're not taking their children to doctors when they're supposed to. So neglect and abuse kind of runs the gamut. And obviously, abuse can also be physical abuse of any nature.

Bob  0:40  

But a lot of the neglect that you just mentioned, is not physical. So it's not easily seen by a teacher, or a grandparent, or a friend where you see bruises or cuts and scrapes and things of that nature. When you're talking about cleanliness of the home, and maybe the child not getting prescription medication or going to the doctor. Who's the first person to say, "Hey, I think there's an issue in that household?"

Kimm  1:03  

Sometimes teachers are the best gauge because the children are very, very open. And they say whatever comes to their mind, they don't have the filters like we do. So they say things in the teachers are kind of our first line of defense, if you want to say that, but family members can be too. You know, if I have like, my child is not taking care of their child, and I can call for a welfare check. I can call DHHS and say I think there's problems. So anybody can really be kind of identify these problems if they see them.

Bob  1:32  

So let's talk about that phone call, you know, maybe a teacher or again, maybe a friend or a neighbor, somebody says I don't think things are right in that household. I think the child is lacking for this, that, or the other thing. Who do they call? And are they legally able to call? Or can the people say "you can't come into my house"?

Kimm  1:53  

There's a whole bunch of different things that can take into consideration. Obviously, you have your mandatory reporters, your doctors, your nurses, any medical care providers, daycare providers, teachers, those are people that if they have an inclination that something is going on, they have to report it. So there's obviously the intake, central intake, which is an 800 number that you can call, you can get online or whatever. And then anybody can actually call, you know, to say, "I think there's something going on," and then DHHS, depending on what's going on, they respond immediately. They can respond within 24 hours and start the investigation process.

Bob  2:30  

So don't call the police, or can you call the police?

Kimm  2:34  

Yes, if you have an issue in thinking the children are in immediate harm, you can always call the law enforcement call dispatch and say, "Hey, I think these kids are in harm. Can you go to the welfare check?" And they are more than happy to do that.

Bob  2:47  

So when DHHS Department of Health and Human Services or CHP, which is CPS Child Protective Services gets called and they show up at my house? Are they legally able to come into my house? Or can I say, "Everything's fine here, my child is fine." They've just got a bone to pick with me or a grudge? Everything's good, Are they? Can they just come in? Or do they need a warrant? Or how does that work?

Kimm  3:11  

Because DHHS is different. It's not criminal, that section of it, their warrant isn't necessarily required, but they, you kind of do have to participate, because what'll happen is law enforcement will get involved, and then law enforcement will do the welfare check. And then things will go from there.

Bob  3:29  

So DHHS comes into my house, they determine that yes, there is neglect abuse going on with my children. What's the next step? Do they automatically take my children away from me? Or do they say, Hey, you know, we're gonna give you 30 days to clean this up and make sure this is better, and thats better, we'll be back to check."

Kimm  3:47  

It really depends if there's something serious, there is actually physical harm that they can substantiate right then and there, they will probably remove the children and place them with a family member or something at least overnight until something can happen. If it is just, you know, the house isn't clean, or this is going on, or you spanked your child with an open hand on the leg, or you know, used a belt, then they'll give you a safety plan, just saying you may not do XYZ, or if this happens, you have to do this, and then they'll kind of back off and wait to see how things progress and just kind of keep an eye on you.

Bob  4:20  

If the children have to be removed from the home, you said maybe given to a relative overnight. Do they go immediately, then after that, into the foster care system, or what happens to the child after they're removed from the home?

Kimm  4:34  

So within 24 hours after having your children removed, you are you are required to have a hearing in front of a judge or magistrate to determine if the children should stay removed or what should happen from them. Obviously the state wants the children to stay in a family placement because that's usually best or comfortable there. However, if there isn't a suitable family placement, then they could ask foster care worker parents to take the children in.

Bob  5:01  

Is there then a program if the children are taken because of issues that really aren't criminal, criminal, like physical abuse? Is there a program then that DHHS or CPS tells the parents or the caregivers, "Okay, now you need to enroll in this to learn how to become, I guess, better parents?"

Kimm  5:19  

Yeah, so the CPS system is not criminal in nature. For the most part, it is rehabilitative. So they want you to do services, parenting classes, they might have you do psychological exams to see what the problems are. Do counseling. If it's drug related, do drug counseling. So is trying to get you the services that you need to kind of be a better parent or figure out how to be a better parent, so your children can come back to you, because the goal is always reunification with your children.

Bob  5:46  

Once they're out of the house, is there a standard legal timeline that, okay, they're going to be out of your house for 30 days, 60 days, or, Hey, if you get this fixed in a week, we can have your kids back to you?

Kimm  5:57  

It's not quite that easy. Once you come under the jurisdiction of the court, meaning your kids have been taken in their place with other people, then the court system usually does reviews like every three months. And if you're progressing, then fine, you know, it could be a short term thing, you know, could be 90 days, it could be six months, usually it's 90 days isn't the typical, but then they can kind of start getting you back they'll put you know parenting time in place, they'll do different things to get it to make sure that you are doing what you're supposed to be versus just, Hey, you did your counseling here, the kids back it kind of doesn't work that way. There's just steps to get back to where you were.

Bob  6:31  

Now, if I remember correctly, DHHS and CPS have been overwhelmed for the past several years. Is that still the case? I mean, are people going to say, "Well, you know, we don't have a caseworker that can come visit us or things are really stretched out?" And it's going to be even longer because of a lack of help on their end?

Kimm  6:51  

Yes, we lack all kinds of different services in our area. And you know, DHHS, getting counselors, getting workers, getting that I believe they're having a hard time as well, just like anywhere else. And then the court system, you know, the court system is inundated with, you know, the cases as well. So it's kind of an overall we just lack a lot of services within our county.

Bob  7:14  

If somebody is facing their children being removed because of this time of neglect and abuse, do they need a lawyer?

Kimm  7:22  

It is always advantageous to have a lawyer, so that way you know your position, you know what you need to do, and that person can advise you on the steps. You know, what's going to happen with the case, what can happen, what can't happen, and just making sure your rights are protected as a parent. 

Bob  7:36  

And if you need a lawyer for any type of law services, they can always contact you correct.

Kimm  7:41  

That's for sure. You can contact me at 517-797-6021 or you can email me at kimm@kbergerlaw.com.

Bob  7:50  

We appreciate Kimm Burger joining us today with Conversations with Kimm.